One of the biggest barriers to good customer learning is the formality of the interaction. The moment you schedule a “customer interview” or a “feedback session,” the dynamic shifts. People perform. They try to be helpful. They tell you what they think you want to hear. Keeping it casual is the antidote.
When you set up a formal meeting to discuss your business idea, several things happen that undermine good learning. The person across from you feels pressure to have opinions. They know you are building something and that you want encouragement. The power dynamic shifts, and you both start performing instead of having a real conversation.
“If it feels like they’re doing you a favour by talking to you, it’s probably too formal.” — Rob Fitzpatrick
Formal meetings also create logistical friction. You have to email, schedule, commute, and set up — all before you learn anything. And because you invested so much effort, you feel compelled to justify the meeting by getting “results,” which often means steering toward flattery.
The best customer learning happens in short, informal interactions — a five-minute chat at a conference, a brief conversation after a meetup, a casual question over coffee. These situations produce better data because nobody is performing.
The key is to remove the trappings of formality. Do not say “Can I interview you about your experience with X?” Say “Hey, I noticed you mentioned X — how does that work for you?” The transition from small talk to useful learning should be seamless.
In each case, the conversation is about their life, not your idea. You are curious, not pitching.
You do not need an hour. Some of the best customer learning happens in under five minutes. If you follow The Mom Test rules — asking about their life, specifics in the past, and listening — you can learn something genuinely useful in a brief exchange.
“Learning can happen anywhere. You don’t need to schedule a meeting. Just ask good questions when opportunities arise.” — Rob Fitzpatrick
You: “So what are you working on these days?”
Them: “We’re in the middle of migrating our analytics platform. It’s a nightmare.”
You: “That sounds painful. What’s the hardest part?”
Them: “Honestly, getting all the historical data moved over. We’ve had three engineers on it for two months.”
You: “Have you tried any tools to automate that?”
Them: “We looked at a couple, but nothing handles our specific schema. We’re doing it by hand.”
In under two minutes, you learned: data migration is a real pain point, it consumes significant engineering resources, existing tools fall short, and they have already tried to solve it. No meeting required.
Formal meetings are not always bad. They become appropriate later in the process — when you are further along and need to discuss specific product details, pricing, or partnerships. But for early-stage learning about whether a problem exists and how people deal with it, casual beats formal every time.
Even in formal settings, you can apply The Mom Test rules. The formality of the setting does not change the quality of your questions.